Issue 139 : February - March 2005
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Norris
Steve Norris was born in Liverpool in 1945. A former MP, Government Minister, Conservative Party Vice - Chairman and London Mayoral candidate, he left politics to pursue a business career and is, among many other things, President of the Motorcycle Industry Association and a former Chair of the National Cycling Strategy Board. During the '80s in the wake of the abolition of the GLC he was made the Minister for Transport in London. SN I was the first minister with an opportunity to dip into every meeting and every aspect of transport and after I'd done that for a couple of years they decided that I'd been promoted to the level of my own incompetence so they added other bits and I became Minister for Local Transport and Road Safety, so I was doing urban transport for the whole country. It was enormously enjoyable and I started to try and understand what integrated transport policy was all about. SB Did you coin that phrase ? SN No but I was the first Conservative who ever uttered it without blushing or spitting. This was the issue that brought me into the debate about the PTW. There was a real revolution going on at that time with radical anti roads campaigners up trees and I created headlines when I said that Swampy (radical front line activist) was right. The respectable middle class need to take note that there was a lot in what he was saying. Past policy had been to predict traffic growth and plan more roads to accommodate it; that has changed and I'm proud that 15 years on, this new thinking is where we're at. No- one accepts 'predict and provide' any more which doesn't mean that you axe all road building. Freezing all road building is no more sensible than thinking you can build your way out of trouble. People assumed it was Tory philosophy that supported predict and provide but it was equally labour and it was mostly down to the officials. They took the view that it was their job to build roads and keep Swampy and chums on the barricades. They viewed it as war. When I invited the anti roads lobby in to speak to myself and the Roads minister John McGregor he looked a bit askance, but these people were not lunatics, some of them were quite sensible. I think the officials hated it because they were wedded to predict and provide. SB Did you meet swampy ? SN Yes and several others who were in the radical front line. There was this idea then that sustainable transport was a leftie concept to equalise down. It was simplified to - the Tories are the toffs in cars and labour like buses. I don't use a car in london, for me it's no 1 - public transport no 2 the scooter and no 3 the pushbike. If I park the car over there (we're in Kensington) it's £33 a day. I wouldn't know what to do with a car in London. There has been this perception historically that public or two wheeled transport is about not being able to afford a car. We need to dispel that myth, people shouldn't feel bad about it. On my scooter I can get from my house in Streatham to here (Kensington) in 15 minutes, in the car it takes 45 minutes and about the same time on public transport. I'm a patron of Transport 2000, the supposedly campaigning left wing, green cycle-friendly lot. I passionately believe that there is nothing political about integrated sustainable transport. This issue has to transcend politics because its about this generation and the next and the next after that. SB How do other road users treat you on 2 wheels ? SN I don't have a problem. I ride exclusively in london and I don't get all this 'I feel so vulnerable' stuff. The people who get knocked off are the people who take chances and it's much worse among cyclists than motorcyclists. SB You think all that vulnerable talk is just part of a victim culture ? SN Yes and the aggressive culture, the cycle terrorists who never stop at a red light, who ride on the pavement and always assume the car driver is in the wrong even when they've overtaken him on the inside. A very few give a lot of people a bad name. It's the same with motorcyclists, it takes one idiot with a straight through pipe doing 90mph over 300 yards to put more people off than you or I can influence positively in 12 months. SB Do you think playing the 'green card' is a legitimate tactic for motorcycle lobbyists ? SN Very much so. You've got to be looking at output per km. OK the situation changes a bit with large bikes but a one litre bike is still more economic than a medium passenger car and it doesn't stand still in traffic. Of course environment is not just about consumption but about noise too. SB Do you think the government has a responsibility to stop traffic growth ? SN No but it has to manage the demand for travel. People move between home, work, retail, leisure, and community. If you need to use transport to get between those then you will do but if you don't you won't. When I lived in Notting Hhill and worked in the City I didn't have a car because the tube suited my needs. I didn't do it for political point scoring I just didn't need a car. SB OK but would you say Government has a responsibility to control CO2 emissions ? SN Sure. SB And if they couldn't do that without controlling traffic growth . . . ? SN Well that's a theoretical question, I don't think we need to accept that as there's so much we can do with emissions. There's so much potential technically with engine development and with managing things more efficiently. I go to York regularly and can leave London at 7am and be at my desk in York at quarter past nine ! SB Do you agree with Tony Blair's recent statement that the environment is the no 1 issue facing humanity ? SN Yes. SB All that aside, what do you think of the view that modern sports bikes are too powerful for our roads ? SN In absolute terms, clearly they are, as are virtually all private cars. The speed limit is 70mph. SB Are you saying that they aren't necessary or that they are a bad thing ? SN I think it's a much more complex question. Is it necessary to ban them? Responsible riders can still enjoy the benefits of these bikes off road on tracks or in other parts of the world where they can use them so I have no issue with the availability of such bikes. SB Is there a solution to the single vehicle accident problem where the rider just loses control?SN No, to be blunt. There are four Es in road safety; Education, Enforcement, Engineering and Evaluation ie finding out what works and education is largely about attitude rather than skill. There's still a lot of engineering to be done on Britain's roads. I increased the budget for this when I was in Government. Taking off adverse cambers, providing better signing, improving road surfaces, all of which can make the roads a bit safer and we have a responsibility to do that, particularly considering the contrast between the value put on a human life in different arenas for eg on the tube a life is costed at £200m. This means that is the investment made to prevent one death. SB On the roads the often quoted figure is a £1m per fatal accident, how do they arrive at that ? SN If you have 3 fatalities on a stretch of road the Government might spend £3m in order to try and prevent a recurrence and if you compare that level of expenditure with the expenditure on rail or air you can see there's a massive disparity. SB Do you sympathise with the BAND people ? (Group of North Yorkshire residents lobbying about fast loud motorcycles in the Dales) SN Yes, I do. SB How do you feel about this radical proposal to dispense with pavements and road signs. (Times story identifying Exhibition Road in London as possible experimental site.) SN It's the wrong road but the right idea - it's too busy a road but in the context of town centres it could work. I've seen it in Holland where they've taken out kerbs and put in block surfacing ('as sold by Jarvis PLC' he adds with a huge grin). This gives a cobbled impression with no marking and minimal signage, thus creating uncertainty. They've a sign in Holland that shows a grey outline of vehicles with a pedestrian and cyclist suggesting that here the car is the visitor but they won't do it on a road that is as wide busy and fast as Exhibition road, you could do it in any side road round here though, Soho would be an ideal environment for it. SB Is there too much stress on wearing the correct motorcycle clothing, can wearing it inspire a dangerous level of confidence ? SN I don't buy into that philosophy, I certainly don't wear body armour. I'm a passionate believer in riding in a business suit, I don't suit leather. You might ask if there is evidence that this gear persuades riders that they are superman ? Yes I think there is. This is the phenomenon that Professor Mckenna of Reading University identified in relation to all 21st century motorised travel ie that its too safe. He advocates a spike in the middle of the steering wheel and helmets off heads. SB should there be a health warning on mainstream performance orientated magazines ? SN No, I'm a Tory, I believe in big people little state I don't believe in nannying. SB I'm not thinking about legal enforcement but about responsibility of editors. SN Nah! if people want to publish 'here's how we can kill ourselves on our bikes magazine' go ahead, it'll probably assist Darwin's theory by eliminating dumb people from the gene pool. I don't believe in censorship. If editors exercise restraint then it's because it doesn't make sense to persuade your readers to kill themselves. SB It might make sense for their sales figures. SN Well in that case let them do it, people have got to be wise enough to be able to read and act without there being a link neccessarily between the two. SB Do you not think the editorials in these magazines place too much emphasis on the idea of challenging the road ? SN Yeah, the trouble is, the kind of people likely to take that sort of editorial seriously are the kind of people likely to get themselves into trouble anyway. If you ask me, do you think they'd still get themselves into trouble without that kind of editorial then I think the answer is yes. The real issue with PTWs is that on one hand you have convenience, the green ticket and on the other you have liberty, re-found youth, etc and the integration of those two is nigh on impossible and the kind of person reading this stuff about challenging the road has bought into a form of motorcycling as a lifestyle choice. So do I think the editorial make a difference? No I don't. Do I think its helpful ? No, I don't think that either. Motorcycle racing is much more exciting than Formulae 1 and it's cultivating an audience that is genuinely enthusiastic. Part of its appeal lies with the fact that the opportunity exists to ride something much closer to the race model than is the case with the Formulae 1 cars which are nothing like road cars. There is spin off from the motorcycle race track and there are people who want to ride like the guys on the track. Them aside it remains the fact that the vast majority of PTW users ride safely. SB Do you think the industry should assume a responsibility for trying to steer the market ? SN It should take account of the fact that if motorcycling is seen as too dangerous then transport policy will deter it, so it's in industry's interest to promote a balanced interpretation of what motorcycling is and I think the MCI do it very well. The industry is involved in accident reduction programmes and they talk to government about powered two wheel strategy but not all the accessory manufacturers are signed up to the programme. There's plenty of kit which a few of them supply that negatively affects the environmental elements built in to factory bikes. SB For example ? SN Straight through pipes, devices to increase power. SB Do you think hard wiring the lights is a good idea ? SN It seems to be, I can't see a disadvantage. It ties the vehicle to the specification it was built to. SB Is that based on evidence that headlights on in daytime reduce accidents ? SN That was the advice we had when I was a minister. SB Here's a contentious one - does it represent consistency in the application of justice to criminalise riders who don't wear crash helmets ? SN Yes No. If you take the view that a legitimate function of law is to protect me from the consequences of your foolishness. Society is entitled to assume that you must take those measures which reasonably ensure I and other tax payers don't end up with your hospital bills and having to support you for the rest of your life because you can't work any more. Does that mean I believe that helmets should be worn in all circumstances ? No - I would be much more relaxed about helmet enforcement on 50cc machines. SB Do you think the helmet law works then ? pauses . . . SN Historically early evidence supported the idea that it worked; latterly, less so. I'm wary on this, I want to meet this question head on . . . would I like to see a headline 'Norris calls for helmets not to be compulsory.' Instinctively I think, as I say, that if you can protect me from the consequences of you riding without a helmet then I'm all for it being your choice, but in truth I've never thought about it in those absolute terms because I don't see that option ever being on the table. SB Suppose we had a compromise as some US states have where riders can chose so long as they take that extra insurance? SN I'd have no problem with that. I used to make my 4 year old ride his bicycle with a helmet, he's now 6 and can't be bothered and I don't make him. I'd would warn riders about cranial damage but in the end I wouldn't go to the extent of compulsory helmets if and only if society is properly protected. And that's certainly not the case in this country at the moment. SN Let's be clear. I'm certainly against making cycle helmets compulsory and said so often and loud when I was advising the government on how to promote cycling. All the evidence I've personally seen is that it would do more to put people off cycling than anything else. Go to Holland and you'll see millions cycling but hardly ever a helmet. For PTWs, where speeds are of a completely different order of magnitude the situation is different. There I'm content to live with the law as it is at least until some radical insurance proposal hits the statute book. SB Is it not wrong that a bike thief might get away with a non custodial sentence when Fred Hill was imprisoned 31 times over helmets. Does it make you feel uncomfortable that our society will do that ? SN It's easy to make martyrs out of individuals. I think that's a very loaded question. The legitimate question is, should society take on the nanny role of absolutely determining what you do, and my answer is 'no', so long as it only affects you. But if you become a burden then I'm paying, if you can insure yourself then I'd be happy to say it's your choice. SB If you're prepared to make that demand of bikers then what about smokers ? SN Of course government may take the same view of smoking the way things are going. SB Would you be comfortable with that? SN No, I'm 'big people little state' but I believe it's legitimate to protect me from the consequences of your foolishness. I think your insurance proposition is the right one. SB Widening this out a bit then, is the government picking on people who commit misdemeanours on the road because it's easy to get those soft and accessible targets rather than focussing on hardened criminals ? SN Yes, clearly too many police forces are looking for figures. I absolutely refuse to accept this political correctness that says 'speeding is as likely to kill as a loaded gun', oh yeah - up to a point. I also think safety camera partnerships are the ultimate cynical political euphemism they're a mechanism for raising money, this is the typical treasury fudge. SB No argument there then, what about motorcycle parking should we have more and access to bus lanes ? SN Yes, a lot more. I'm passionate about both those issues. Remember I instigated shared use of bus lanes in Bristol. I'm much less happy about cycles in bus lanes, we should be looking at separate provision for cycles. SB MAG has encountered a lot of resistance from Westminster Council for more bike bays, why do you suppose that is ? SN The parking argument is a disgrace, it's about money. A car bay is worth £80 pound a day in the West End and there's no investment, it's a gravy train but they make nothing out of bikes. SB How credible a lobby does MAG present ? SN It's good, it has a role to play. MAG has done a good job in raising the profile of motorcycling which is what's needed. When I was a Minister there were several areas of transport namely bikes and trucks that might not seem connected, but you know what the link is ? - they're both invisible as far as transport planning, neither gets the attention they should. SB We're working on it. |
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Never far from the headlines flamboyant political heavyweight businessman and scooter rider Steve Norris makes a space in his diary to talk to Streetbiker...